PoliticsPosted by Lee Waaks Sun, February 26, 2017 17:11:57
The following is a response by David McDonagh to blog post by Robert Henderson on the Libertarian Alliance (not to be confused with this blog of the same name). Because Mr. McDonagh's response strictly follows the outline of Mr. Henderson's post, there is some repitition. The context of the reply can usually be gleaned from the comment, but it may be useful to read Mr. Henderson's post first. (Mr. McDonagh's response was casually edited by Lee Waaks.)
The politically correct [PC] ideal of equality and democracy, like politics and the state itself, has never been popular with the masses; and they haply never will be either.
Free trade boosts all incomes by boosting greater output than we would otherwise have.
The Navigation Acts held progress back, as politics and the state always does.
Liberal ideas are hardly unquestioned but then Henderson seems to get nearly everything wrong about liberalism.
While the state exists, the market will never quite be free. The state needs to tax the market just to exist.
Adam Smith hardly needed his metaphor of the invisible hand for the division of labour, as, clearly, it gears self-interest to serve others by specialisation, or by learning a trade. Almost any job requires some expertise.
Socialists are just statist Tories. Fascists are also Tories. Bolsheviks are Russian Tories. Collectivists are Tories. Liberalism is anti-politics, so it is against democracy and the state.
The state is anti-social. Its aims usually tend to mess up society.
Henderson is not wise to call the liberals dishonest. I think he is very ignorant and thoughtless, but he is most likely not dishonest. He loves the state so much that he cannot credit that it is sincerely rejected by the liberals.
Monopoly is almost impossible to obtain, as it is not easy to stop new firms from entering any market. But the idea that the market ends in a monopoly is a long-standing folk dogma, and the main hope of Marxism, but the idea is way older than Karl Marx. However, monopoly did not increase in Marx’s lifetime, nor has it increased since his death.
Liberalism is about repealing laws not passing them; not on monopoly or on anything else.
Free markets are what emerge when the state has been totally rolled back to non-existence, or to anarchy. Liberals are against the state, not monopoly per se. Henderson loves the state so much that he doubts that there are some that hate it. But, yes, the state is the only institution that can enforce a monopoly, but that is not why the liberals reject it.
The market is not natural, but it is anarchic. It does not need the state.
The liberal idea of no state is not empty-headed. Politics is anti-social and negative sum, i.e. wasteful. It is what looks like support for what is wasteful that is nearer to being empty-headed but, presumably, it is down to mere ignorance.
The market fits humans as they are, though they prefer to be consumers rather than producers. But the state is at odds with humanity, as people do not like being bossed bout.
Protectionism is no more natural than is smuggling (black markets) that, nearly always, flout it.
No one owns markets. It is just where people freely trade with each other.
Lower prices are clearly better for the customer.
The mass urban society gives rise to potential jobs being infinite. A village often lacks jobs, but never does a big city. Employment becomes a function of pricing ourselves into work rather than there being a lack of jobs in the big city.
Society is polycentric, and it is never a whole. If you hear the bell toll, then it tolls for another person. Economic interest groups related to the factors of production are as mythical as the supposed inexorable movement of free trade to monopoly theorized by Marxism, and both are clearly bogus. The idea of the class struggle is about as unrealistically Romantic as one can get. There never was anything like it in the past, which is why E.P.Thompson's 1963 book, The Making of the English Working Class, mentioned not even one example of it in more than 900 pages of his book.
Liberals claim that any trader gains, in his own estimation, from trade. The liberals do not postulate society, as a person, or as a quasi-person, who gains from trade. Both the consumer and producer surplus resulting from any trade is subjective to each trader. Trade is a positive sum transaction.
Liberalism is anti-politics, not a recipe for a type of politics. The anarcho-liberals that make up most of the active Libertarian Alliance [LA] are never happy with any state activity; none whatsoever. But the alliance in the LA is with minimal statists, who do accept a vital need for the state.
Liability is going to be limited in any case. The 1862 Act just spared a bit to settle for what traders chose to risk. Having all at risk would not be much more actual liability, in most cases. Limiting what is put at risk, to what we freely want to put at risk is not, somehow, unfree in some way. To say that only a claim to all a person owns must be involved if ever one is to invest is not more free, or more honest, but just a sheer stupidity.
A free market is the market free of the state. Yes, that means no taxation, no state money, indeed, no politics whatsoever.
Henderson seems not to know that the LA is against the state. The active LA members hold that the state has no business at all but, indeed, that it is immoral. The LA most of all opposes taxation, which the LA has often called theft. But Henderson imagines the LA endorses taxation and that it is only really against monopoly (or something else). Liberals do not care much about monopoly as such, for most of them hold that the market can sort it out by new firms starting up to exploit the monopoly price that the big firms might charge. Liberals only essentially hate the state and taxation -- taxation because it aids the illiberal state activity.
Liberalism is not particularly fussed about monopoly, but we might still note that the daft dogma that competition leads to it is clearly false. It is clear that it is not easy to keep new firms out of most trades, especially if the big firms are charging high prices. Henderson believes roads are an exception, but they have substitutes like air, rail and sea travel. In any case, there can be efforts to buy up particular roads on the market.
No, there is haply not fewer firms in the car industry than there were 40 years ago. British firms have declined but Japanese firms have emerged since then. Chinese firms are now emerging.
No, free-trade liberals do not want a single market but only no states. The market will never be a whole and there will never be “a level playing field” (to cite a statist metaphor from sport), but liberals, as such, do not seem to care much about that. The economists recommended the statists to allow free trade to exploit comparative advantage, which thrives on inequality and any unequal advantage that we might find. However, the state cannot completely indulge free trade, as freedom needs to be trade free of the state, ipso facto.
The EU aims at being a super-state, not a free-trade area. It seeks power and influence in the world. It aims to be the number one state no less.
What classical liberal ever complains about dumping? I have seen no pristine liberal complain against cheap goods.
Henderson says free trade does not mean free immigration, as, logically speaking, trade is made for humans, rather than humans for trade. But free trade usually does tend to mean a free flow of immigration too.
Henderson claims we can exchange goods and services without allowing free immigration if society does not want to, but there is no such person called society. However, in a liberal society no one needs to accept immigrants, to give them jobs, lodgings, etc. if they do not wish to do so, as social liberty is liberty on both sides. Society cannot decide but any person can decide for himself.
Yes, taxation scotches free trade, as does any state.
Democracy is not liberal but an attempt to govern: voting is illiberal, gratuitous, coercion against others.
Henderson says that comparative advantage has little reality to it. But it is very clear that some parts of the world (e.g., South America) grow bananas, say, way more easily and more cheaply than can be grown at other places, say, Northern Europe. They expoit the uneven playing field. He believes that as this may change, so it does not matter, but that is not germane, not even one iota. Every person does what he does best at any one time. That the comparative advantage can change, in some cases, hardly means it is not important at any one time.
Higher tax regimes and higher welfare provision tend to lower real wages, but Henderson writes as if he thinks they can boost them. Only greater output can do that and the state hampers output by taxing it to pay for services that no one wants but the rulers think is vital to civilisation. So, for example, we have the spectacle of subsidised, often empty, buses circulating around UK towns and cities to maintain an alleged social service on a regular timetable.
As we have had the modern state since the rise of the modern market, we have never had completely free trade. Henderson believes it was reckless to go in for freer trade in the nineteenth century. He believes industrial dominance, primitive transport
levels, and the slow industrialisation of the USA and other European lands, allowed the UK to dodge the hazards. But after 1870, that was not the case any longer and the British market was then flooded with food and wool. Many states then went protectionist, but Britain failed to do so. It paid the price for this folly of freer trade, he argues, as the industrial predominance it had once enjoyed was soon lost. The UK's agricultural markets were destroyed and new industries (e.g., chemicals) soon arose that left the UK behind. In contrast, Henderson argues, the protectionist policy of the USA and Germany enabled both states to exceed the UK’s GNP. But there was no need for the UK to retain the lead in any industry. The fact that other places were catching up and then overtaking the UK boosted wages even in the UK. Henderson seems to think the object is for the UK to forever lead the world in this or that sector, but the objective of economic activity is to boost the standard of living, not to dominate the world. He overlooks that state protectionism is very wasteful and seems to think that there is a clash of interests on the world division of labour, but very little of the market is in competition. Firms compete for customers but most of the market, as Alfred Marshall pointed out in 1890, is the result of cooperation. Even the competition, he noted, was within a cooperative framework.
Bismarck seemed to overlook the wastefulness of protectionism and of politics in general.
What he thought was wrong is hardly anything to do with the truth. Trade is to do with firms, not nations; still less to do with the wasteful state. Trade aids both a producer and a consumer surplus, so both sides gain by trade but taxation is negative sum, so we all lose out, on the whole, from any political action; and maybe both sides do too; though the
politicians act as if they gain from what they do.
It was not protectionism that made the first industrial “revolution” but the flourishing of science, technology and business. Henderson overestimates bias to home trade and he writes as if the EU and the WTO aid free trade rather than hindering it, ipso facto, by their very existence. The idea that free trade needs to be mitigated is on par with the idea that economic growth or increased income needs to be mitigated. Henderson also overrates the British Empire in trade, even though he is explicitly cautious about that. He believes free trade was a risk in 1850 for Britain, and that it is for all nations now, but he
overlooks that it is the best way that firms can do well. Politics is wasteful, by contrast, but Henderson believes that the state is a boon. He tells of free trade as idiocy, but it is clearly politics that is perversely negative sum and thereby clearly wasteful idiocy.
It is not clear that Henderson fully understands free trade, let alone the history of it, but he loves the state and the state-imposed wasteful problem of defence, that he believes the nineteenth century liberals were careful about, but the truth is that the liberals hated warmongering. Liberals, like Richard Cobden, were out to stop the backward state courting war. But it is true that the pristine liberals of the LA are more against the state than the Manchester School ever was.
Henderson postulates that complete free trade today would be dangerous for the West. He believes no firm can compete with low wages around the world. But this wage gap with what they call the "Third World" was caused by the backward rejection of free trade after 1914 and after the war that ended in 1918. Why would the wage rates on the other side of the world affect most of the trade in Britain? Could it affect local plumbers, carpenters and the like? Most trade will remain local but given free trade, then international wages will soon even up around the world anyway owing to the export of capital.
We are told by Henderson that experience tells us that industrialisation is best achieved by protection but that is wasteful, ipso facto, as all politics is. He overlooks that, or, more likely, he has never yet quite realised it.
Henderson tells us “the most lethal ammunition to discharge at free traders is the fact that no country in the history of the world has industrialised successfully without very strong protectionist measures being in place”, but this is a mere fallacy of post hoc; ergo propter hoc and it overlooks the cost of such protectionism in every case. The point is a brutum fulmen. However, it haply is about the best any protectionist can do.
The spread of British capital overseas would have haply stopped the "Third World” from arising, thereby dodging the current problem of mass immigration to where the capital, and thus the higher wages, are to be had. Nationalist measures “distort” the world division of labour. Free trade (or freer trade) did/does aid economic development everywhere, including in pre-1913 Germany. Henderson should note that the protectionism imposed after 1914 created the main problem that seems to concern him today, viz. the existence of lower wages in the Third World that threaten to pull down wages in the First World. Athough an increase in world production would likely lead to higher real wages for the First World, his protectionist “solution” would not remove this problem, but rather prolong it. As previously mentioned, freer trade was evening up wages around the world before 1914.
Protectionism did not aid the UK to recover after 1931. Henderson fails to explain this beyond his aforementioned post hoc fallacy, as there is nothing to aid economic development in protectionism. It simply allows firms to be free from competition from abroad. As free trade is basic economics, there is no need to call it a "secular religion", as there is nothing whatsoever religious about it. Firms need to keep up to date with all other firms under free trade, but they can become stagnant with protectionism. There is always free trade within a nation, and as the EU was attempting to become a super-state (or a new nation), then there would be free trade within the nations it was attempting to make mere provinces.
Protectionism always taxes the economy. Henderson argues that free trade is not necessary for rapid economic growth; that state regulation of the domestic market and international trade is not a recipe for disaster; and that being a “free trader” when the rest of the world is not reciprocating is a mug’s game. But some liberty is vital to economic growth and politics taxes the public, so even when it dodges being a total disaster, the state never dodges imposing extra costs. Anyway, one-way free trade is fine as there is no need at all to respond to tariffs of others with those of your own, as that will only increase the dysfunctional politics. Contrary to Henderson, it is politics that is the mug’s game, as it is always negative sum. Trade, by contrast, is always economic, so it is always positive sum. Henderson imagines we do not know whether protectionism is dysfunctional or not, but it always costs extra taxation; thus, it is always uneconomic or negative sum. So we do know that it is wasteful.
Free trade is the same as the free market. In the colleges since about 1900, they have attempted to define laissez-faire as trade within the state's domain and free trade as between states, but this distinction is not very realistic because states do not trade, only firms and customers.
Governments are not the natural suppliers of health care; or, indeed, of any good.
Trade results in gains to the customer and producer immediately, not later. The gains may not be uniform but they are immediate surpluses to both traders. In what way do the later generations thereby lose out? As for politicians, they live off taxation, thus they make the public poorer to the extent that they tax them.
The fact that many lands are poor today is the result of the interruption of free trade by the 1914 war, which Henderson argues was a distortion of domestic trade. But this idea that domestic trade should be separate from the worldwide division of labour is an arbitrary idea. Free trade would soon iron out the Third World, such that there would be soon no longer a massive advantage in mass immigration to seek jobs elsewhere, though some competition in a more even world would continue. The capital would go to the workers rather than the workers emmigrating for better pay.
Most of the jobs out there need no skills. Former Prime Minister Tony Blair was utterly deluded with his “education, education, education” idea, viz. the popular idea that education was investment rather than being just sheer consumption, as it usually is. But increased output from successful new capital investment (including human capital -- but that is usually mustered by on the job learing rather than at college) means all wages are higher as a result of extra innovation that, if successful, increases total output.
Henderson believes that nitpicking over how exact are measurements of wealth might aid his case against liberalism. But the fact that the "poor" today are rich in absolute terms is clear no matter how useless the means of wealth measurement are.
Why does Henderson call council housing “social housing” when it is clear enough that it is very anti-social and, indeed, that it is a recipe for thugs? The popular press in the UK calls council housing "CHAVs", i.e. council house and violence.
What is called the welfare state is a public menace. That it has been rolled back a little bit since the 1960s is a social boon.
Why was unemployment so low till about 1970? It was obviously owing to the cleared labour market, but the media, falsely, held that to be a thing of the past in the 1970s and since. But we can always clear the labour market whenever the price, or the wage levels, are right. In the 1960s, the dole was taboo, as only a few workers, when exchanging jobs, would ever go there; it was a sign that a worker did not really want a job. By the
1970s, however, many thought that full-employment and the cleared labour market had naturally broken down, so from then on many accepted the need for the dole. The story put out by the media obfuscated the fact that only the dole allowed mass unemployment to ever be mustered in the mass urban society.
In absolute terms, it is easier than ever to support a family on a single wage today. But people want to do all the other things too. It is false that the mother does better for the family by taking a job. It is also false to say there is no choice involved. We do not need to conform to social norms.
A bigger state clearly needs to tax more.
Most people never did think much of state provision, falsely called social provision, although Henderson ignores the fact that it is anti-social. It is very clear that most in the UK are better off than in 1960, especially the poorest third, who are today fairly rich, with all the modern conveniences. In 1960, most households did not have running hot water, phones, or most other modern conveniences. The market, which needs to be free to some extent, and was so even within the late USSR, is alone responsible for progress since 1750. At no time has the state done other than impose a cost. Henderson does not seem to grasp that fact; he thinks it is something to do with elite ideology.
If people buy things then they usually want them more than they want the money they need to pay to obtain them.
People often fail to provide many things in computers and elsewhere.
Few things are truly necessities.
Brainwashing is a mere myth.
Henderson absurdly says people do not really want computers, but then he tells us why they want them. He says we all need computers today; so we want them as a means. As Thomas Hobbes said, we choose to do all we do, either as a means to an end, or as an end in itself.
Free trade ebbs power, so all lose power whenever trade gets freer. But then power is a certain evil and, as Lord Acton famously said, it tends to corrupt.
The poor are not subordinated to the rich on the market. The market lacks any power as, qua market, it is free.
I have never met anyone who loves equality and I tend to think that no one does. It is a silly, unexamined, school teacher dogma, worthy only of contempt.
The gains of trade are immediate; they do not trickle down.
No society is truly more than economic relationships. That is a mere misunderstanding of economics. Any desire for certainty will be for an aspect of the standard of living.
There has never been a working class. That is a myth of college sociology and politics departments. The Labour Party would win every election, hands down, if there were a UK working class interest, but rather than see the plain truth of very diverse economic interests, the backward academics hold those who voteTory are fooled in some way. But the workers are not the only ones who cannot see this purely imaginary proletarian economic class interests, for the sociologists cannot see it either.
People rarely notice where things are made.
It is no absurdity that free trade tends to crowd out war. Firms cannot afford to fight wars and the state can only afford to fight them owing to taxation.
Yes, the illiberal coercion of crass democracy is hostile to free trade, as it is an attempt at government, thus it is against liberty.
Henderson imagines democracy is a boon to the masses, but it never was. Nor was it ever popular. Protectionism is credited with this and that, but no explanation of how it does what he imagines it to do is attempted. Similarly, he gives no detailed charge against free trade apart from his fallacy of post hoc.
Similarly, he assumes a movement towards monopoly but he seems not to know this dogma was around before Marx was born in 1818 and it is not greater today than it was, say, in 1800.
The actual reality of things is that total output determines what wages can buy and, thus, their value.
Immigrants may destroy a nation by destroying the idea that it is a large family, thereby making many natives no longer feel they have a homeland. Nevertheless, immigrants do, boost output, which leads to rising real wages. The same is true for “exporting jobs”, which also boosts real wages. But Henderson thinks the value of wages are lowered thereby and he adds:
“Those whose jobs opportunities have been degraded have suffered a form of theft. Had mass immigration and the export of jobs been prevented, the wages for the jobs taken by immigrants would have been higher than they are when subjected to the additional competition of immigrant labour and the exported jobs would not have been exported, which in itself would have tightened the labour market. In societies of rising aspiration, this could result in jobs considered menial being better rewarded than those which enjoy high status under 'free trade' circumstances. It might be necessary to pay a sewage worker as much as a doctor. Doubtless many would throw their hands up at this. But there is no logic to such a response, because in a society with a large private enterprise component a wage is simply a response to the value the market puts on a job. Unskilled workers may not earn as much as the average doctor or lawyer at present, but skilled tradesmen such as plumbers and builders often do.”
But workers can only be paid from total output and that would be way lower in the set-up that Henderson imagines here. But it is true that supply and demand (i.e. free trade) tends to equalize wages and salaries. Free trade would end aristocracy rather than fostering it, as Henderson imagines. “Class” is just a bogus idea of the PC religion of Sociology. Anyone who talks class thereby talks crass stupidity. Democracy never did give the masses any control and the masses hate voting anyway. Participation is a waste of their time. It is boring at best and they want to be free of it. As the saying goes: “Committees take minutes but waste hours”.
Henderson repeatedly imagines that there is something social about the state, but the plain fact is that the state is intrinsically anti-social.
Democracy was an elite fashion, not something the masses ever wanted or needed; it thrived only on elite thoughtlessness. But Henderson tells us that, in fact, it was originally oligarchy, not true democracy. But then he absurdly adds that it nevertheless brought with it a lot of control by the masses. His contradiction is self-refuting. The true half of the contradiction is that it was oligarchy; the false half is the claim that democracy brought any real control by the masses.
The urge towards the EU was one for a successful warmongering super-state not a stand against democracy. It was for power and influence in the world. There is no effective democracy to oppose. Nor is it going to be more popular in the future, and ditto politics and religion. They never were popular but the acme of what little popularity they
ever had is, now, well in the past.
Henderson imagines this class interest of the elite is unconscious! It all arises from psychological and sociological forces; forces arising from PC religion, or from the anti-social sciences or the unnatural sciences.
A lot of wastage in any nation is owing to measures taken just in case of war, and the whole lot tend to foster war rather than to deter it. Free trade tends to crowd war out. But Henderson seems to welcome war. It is silly to call free trade a religion, but a bit less silly to call liberalism one, as it is a creed rather than mere phenomena. But state worship seems to have something nearer to the God worship of many religions, so religion is more to do with the immoral state.
Henderson is a fine one to write about the ignorance of others.
Smith was not quite right to say that the state was needed to do certain things. As the economist Milton Friedman said, anything the state can do the market can do better, but he overlooked that war was an exception.
PoliticsPosted by Nico Metten Fri, June 05, 2015 16:21:39
If you attend a lot
of libertarian gatherings, you will start feeling like everything
talked about is very repetitive. Every argument being made sounds
familiar and if someone new might show up you can predict what their
objections are going to be. Nevertheless, I am not really getting
tired of them for a number of reasons. There is the psychological
aspect of feeling sane and understood. I know a lot of libertarians
who come to meetings for this reason alone, as it is an experience in
contrast to what they are experiencing in their normal environment.
And sometimes you might actually come across an interesting viewpoint
that you have not heart before. So despite all the repetition, you
might actually learn something. In any case, arguing a lot, even if
repetitive, certainly trains you in making your points in other
debates. In the end it helps spreading libertarian ideas.
But there is a
series of talks that come up fairly regularly that annoyed me from the
first time I attended one of them. It is a series that I would like to call 'Let's do something'. The 'Let's do Something' talks follow a
common structure. Whoever gives the talk will start by saying that he
or she has observed that libertarians are arguing too much and spend a
lot of time with books. That is all nice and well, but he or she has
decided that now the time has come to stop this childish complaining
and take real action instead.
The proposal to 'do
something' is always presented as some kind of fantastic new break
through idea that obviously a lot of libertarians could not come up
with themselves. And the moment the words 'Let's do something' have been
uttered you will find some libertarians getting overly excited. From
this moment, they do not let any argument count, as arguing looks
like falling back into the childish complaining status. As a result,
any proposal following these words will be seen as worth supporting
and superior to talking.
Don't get me wrong,
I am all in favor of taking action. So are most if not all
Libertarians. One topic that is reliably discussed on every
libertarian gathering is, how do we get to a libertarian society or
at least, how do I get the state out of my life. Libertarians are
spending a lot of time trying to figure out a solution to the state
problem. However, this problem, not surprisingly turns out to be a
very difficult problem to solve. If the power of the state was so
fragile that all it needed to topple it was for some people to get
together and 'do something' it would have gone away a long time ago.
Having said that,
there are some strategies that libertarians have come up with that
actually might get us to a libertarian society in the long run. However, the
remarkable thing about the 'Let's do something' talks is that they are
consistently disappointing in coming up with persuasive solutions.
People who start their talks with 'Let's do something' will usually
not tell you about strategies like agorism, how to reduce your tax
burden, how to use alternative currencies or stop the state from
spying on you. No, none of that. People who start their talks
dismissing debate and demanding action fairly reliably will give you
the proposal to get involved in politics one way or another.
The most common one
is to propose a new libertarian party. “Hey guys, a lot of you are
just sitting around debating. But a few of us have decided to grow up
and we have founded this new libertarian party that will change things in this
country”. Sorry mate, but this is not new. It has been tried many
times with not very persuasive results. So why come up with the same
old non solution?
The last talk in
this series that I attended and that inspired me to write this piece
was from an MEP of the Tory party who somehow is sympathetic to
classical liberalism. Becoming an MEP I guess was his idea of doing
something. I could not quite figure out how this action is helping,
but then again if I were to fight MEPs I should probably start with
the less libertarian ones. At least he seemed like a sincere guy. Although, he did have this typical talking style of a politician of being deliberately vague to please as many listeners as possible.
He thought one of
the big problems of libertarianism is that they don't have a good
answer to the problem of poverty. They are just assuming that the
poor will be better off in a free market, without delivering any proof
for it. That is why people do not understand the libertarian
solution. So instead of talking, libertarians should practically show
how the market helps the poor. He proposed going into the community and help poor
people run their own businesses. An example he gave was, how he
helped a drug dealer using his entrepreneurial skills to now run a
sandwich shop instead.
This proposal is odd
on many levels. First it smells a lot like central planning for
politicians to go around and tell people how to run their businesses.
It does not need the guidance of the state to run businesses. Maybe
the drug dealer is now better off selling sandwiches, or maybe not. I
don't have a principal problem with either one of those businesses.
But for the life of me, I cannot figure out how getting him into the
sandwich making business is helping Libertarianism. No tax has been
reduced, no regulation has been abolished. The structural problem of
the state remains. I told him that, but his answer was that
regulations, while nasty are not the main problem. There are still
many entrepreneurs who succeed in a statist environment. So the problem has to be the attitude of people.
True, people in
state education are systematically educated to be irresponsible. But
then again, that is a structural problem of state education and the
welfare state. To say that regulations are not the main problem, is a
dangerously wrong analysis of why the standard of living of so many
people is going down. True, there are successful entrepreneurs in this
statist environment. Some people are so productive that even after
all the taxation and regulations they still are able to run a
profitable business. But these are strong people. This is exactly not
a solution for the poor, who tend to be a little bit less skilled.
The less skilled a person is, the more likely every stone you put
into his or her way will kill his or her ability to run a profitable
business. It is exactly the poor who are most dependent on us solving
the structural problem of the state, for they are the first to suffer
under it. And btw isn't 'not letting you being put off by regulations'
exactly what drug dealer are doing? Here you can see, how regulations are helping the strong. They get even richer than they
deserve to be, because the state has killed the competition.
It is indeed
unfortunate, that economics can be counter intuitive, as one needs to
understand that a lot of consequences are not directly visible. And
to be honest, my suspicion was that the MEP did not fully understand
that himself. He seemed to suggest that poor people really are benefiting from the state. Of course it is not intuitively clear why poor
people are better off if the welfare state stops giving them money.
But it is nevertheless true and therefore there is no alternative to
spreading this idea. If you do not spread the idea, whatever actions
you take could still produce non libertarian results.
Which brings me to
the biggest fallacy of the 'do something' philosophy. Ideas are not
useless chit chat. They are the most powerful weapon this movement
has. Therefore, spreading propaganda very much qualifies as doing
something. And it is probably the best thing most people are able to do. If we
look throughout history we see the powers of ideas everywhere. For
example, how did democracy or socialism become so powerful? They
started out as ideas of a few nutters. These ideas slowly started to
grow before their time finally had come. That is why you cannot just
implement a democracy in countries that never had any democratic
process. People do not yet understand the idea.
Because ideas are so
powerful, you will find strong forms of censorship in every
dictatorial system. The reason why a country like North Korea is so
cut off from everything is not because they fear the nice consumer
products from the rest of the world. Their real fear is that ideas
will come over and topple the regime.
Ideas are also the
foundation of actions. If someone acts against the state he first
needs to identify the state as a problem. There might be some people
out there who are really able to do something great against the
state. But first they need to understand that the state is a problem. Whoever invented the block chain for example certainly was
influenced by libertarian thoughts. With these ideas in mind, he then realized that he had some skills that could be turned into action. If it was not for libertarian propaganda, this might have never happened.
In my experience it
is not that libertarians are too lazy to act. They are more than
willing to do so. But that does not mean they have big opportunities
to do so. Most people find small opportunities to increase the amount
of freedom in their lives. Few are capable of inventing something big
like Bitcoin. I certainly could not have done that. But I don't have
to. The division of labor also works for Libertarianism. The best thing most of us can do is to spread ideas, so that
those with the exceptional skills to act on it can be influence by
The problem with
ideas is that they don't show immediate results. You will not step in
front of a crowd of statists, explain libertarianism to them and see
them collectively saying 'I was blind, but now I see'. Whether people
are listening to you depends on many things like their motivation,
their age, intelligence, personality etc. Not everyone can be
persuaded and it is a slow process. That makes ideas very annoying
for impatient people. They start concluding that spreading ideas is a hopeless exercise. It also makes you feel like you are not in
control of the process. However, there does not seem to be a real
alternative to ideas if you want social change.
If your ideas are
correct and attractive, they will sooner or later win followers. The
good thing about ideas is that once they pick up steam, they can grow
exponentially. We also don't need to win over everyone. A lethal
doses of ideas for the state is far below the threshold of persuading
everyone. We just need a significant number of the right people. So
let's not complain about people not doing anything. Everyone does what they can do best, just like in the rest of the economy. But one thing that really everyone can do is to continue spreading ideas.
PoliticsPosted by David McDonagh Sun, March 29, 2015 12:43:45
it folly to ignore art?
In Sean Gabb’s latest talk to the LA he seemed to
have embraced a completely bogus thesis viz. that art aids society in general,
especially the morale of the ruling class.
Sean also feels that the progress of the LA has been
very disappointing and he expressed the rather odd idea that this was because
there is not enough libertarian art. Some libertarians on Sean’s LA blog agreed
with Sean on both art and on the more realistic looking idea of a lack of liberal
progress since 1979, especially on the futility of LA activity, but, despite appearance
on that latter idea if we have different ideas from the LA on the progress rate
of the spread of ideas, if the LA was right in 1981 then that is a similarly
unrealistic outlook on expectations of progress from libertarian propaganda and
some of those who agreed with Sean even expressed that it was not clear to them
of whom the enemy of liberalism is, or of what progress of the pristine liberal
idea would amount to.
I will begin with a short re-statement of what I
take to be the main content of the 1981 purpose and strategy of the LA.
The main idea is that ideas change slowly. We cannot
realistically ever expect rapid progress. We can witness instant conversion, of
course, in the odd individual case, but customs change way more slowly, for
most people are conservative with a small “c” and so tradition is often against
change, but customs do change nevertheless. It simply takes time. It takes
decades, or even centuries, rather than days or weeks.
There is short run propaganda and long run
propaganda that manifests in society in two forms of politics, that we might
call 1) practical politics and 2) theoretical politics. Harold Wilson, a career
politician, rightly said that “a week is a long time in politics” and this was,
and is still, clearly true for his sort of politics.
Theoretical politics, or ideological politics, would
haply be better off with the statement that a decade is not very long in the
aim of changing society. But slow change does take place.
The LA was never thought to be a pressure group to
get practical politicians to do just one thing, such as the Anti-Corn Law
League, or recently, the UKIP [though they decided to go into a party before
their pristine aim of getting out of the slowly emerging super-state was
achieved] but rather it was a long run ideology group. The aim of the LA was to
muster propagandists or “intellectuals” or extraverts who habitually tend to
foster or change public opinion. They may not be bright people but they are
It usually takes about fifty years to make
noticeable headway in this quest to change fundamental ideas. Such propagandists will be few in number yet
they matter way more that the general public in this quest to change
fundamental customs, here the aim is to roll back the state.
The foremost violator of social liberty is the
state; so our enemy is the state. Getting that rolled back, or reduced to zero,
is the aim of the LA, and recruiting the propagandists is the peaceful means to
that long run aim; but tax cuts are fine in the short run. But no results can
be soon attained and facile pessimism and disappointment in the LA needs to be
carefully dodged. Pessimism is not realism.
A rise in membership to a thousand or two thousand in five to ten years
would be success for the LA. That is
what we thought in 1981.
How do things stand now? We had a bad upset in 1982,
of course. Before then we seemed to be growing quite well.
The Internet shows support for ideological groups
and below is the statistics for meet-up groups.
50 Socialism meetups: http://socialism.meetup.com/
238 Feminism meetups: http://feminism.meetup.com/
442 Conservative meetups: http://conservative.meetup.com/
487 Libertarian meetups: http://libertarian.meetup.com/
I will give an account of Sean’s talk then criticise it, as well as a few
comments made by others on the blog. Sean, more or less, said the following:
that at the end of the 1980s many thought that libertarianism was doing well.
We had seen off socialism. Most were optimistic but one young man was not: Sean
have we achieved in 25 years? One LA puts on monthly meetings. My LA collects money but apart from keeping
the movement in being, it seems not much has been done.
might be different in the USA, but I doubt it.
the 1980s it has been stagnation or decline for libertarianism. We are all
intellectuals and that is the problem.
always thought it was stupid to get people talking at bus-stops but nowadays we
do not even seem to be doing that but only talking to ourselves. This is not
the way to win debates or to influence the world.
did the left come to dominate things? They were not concerned with mere ideas.
They won because they focused on culture.
made by John Ford starring Henry Fonda spread leftist ideas by a narrative and
a world view that rendered them acceptable. J.B. Priestley in the play, later a
film An Inspector Calls (1954) with
Alastair Sim delegitimises the past. We all have duties, not just rights. I read the play at school.
is the likes of J.B. Priestley and George Orwell that count, and even G.B.
Shaw, though I always thought he was a bit of a windbag, but they all three won
the day, but not Laski. Laski and Marx are not all that important.
this culture established Political Correctness [PC] but The New Statesman and The New
Society, Marcuse, and the like, are not so important but art succeeds
The LA go on about von Mises and so not
surprisingly we are ignored. We ought to produce novels and plays or ballet
rather than books on economics. No one reads books by Eamonn Butler.
left have took over as they focus on what is important. We need a counter narrative in the UK. It is
a bit better in the USA, as there is more of a culture for libertarianism
there. They have novels, music, film-makers there and similar are needed here.
need libertarian poetry, ballet, novels for we need to give up going on and on
about the economic calculation argument [eca] and defence problems. We have had
40 years but there are no libertarian film-makers yet.
Road To Serfdom (1944) had no
particular influence but Orwell’s 1984
(1949) and Darkness At Noon (1940)
Arthur Koestler did influence have a great impact and those books destroyed
communism in the UK. I was converted by 1984
but I was not much affected by The Road
and the Bolsheviks won out owing to art. Eisenstein, Shostakovich and general
Socialist Realism culture made the late USSR look glamorous. On recent visits, I look up at the tops of
the buildings of the tower blocks and I see excellent art. It was not Marx or
the theory of the Bolsheviks that maintained the USSR for so long but the
you associate art and libertarianism? I don’t.
Sean handed it over for discussion.
think that art plays no part at all in politics. That we have zero allows us to
be exact about its actual role.
has his own theories about the ruling class but my own view on class can be
prefaced by what Marx said on class for he said we can classify people as we
wish but objective economic interests is what matters and I would say that Marx
got nowhere near discovering such objective class interests, for there never
were any to be found. In fact, there are none. So, far from history being full
of class struggle there are no classes like the ones Marx imagined, none at
all, in history. The Marxist meme of class is pure Romance. There is a ruling
class [i.e. a group in government and in the administration of the various states]
but no objective economic class interests.
seems to have overlooked how bleak establishment thought it was in 1944, when
Hayek wrote that book. One man it did influence was Orwell, who wrote a review
of it. He had thought, beforehand, that capitalism was doomed. The Times in the 1940s was full of the
over confident E.H. Carr editorials stating that the market might not last even
another week. It all looks silly today and the cited book was a factor. Hayek was a way bigger factor in ending all
that gloom than Orwell or Koestler ever was.
for ballet, has even Sean ever been to a performance of that? Girls seem to love
it but I am surprised to see a man even mention it, and Sean seems to be about
the only male that I have known to do so, but then I do not know a female who
does not claim to have wanted to be a ballet dancer and actively aimed at it by
dancing when young. Until Sean’s talk, I thought only females ever cared about
it. It clearly does not influence politics very much, if at all.
read 1984 in 1968 but I saw it as
anti- Bolshevik rather than anti-socialist. It did not affect my, then, enthusiastic
socialism one bit.
I said, the media is not dominated by the left today. They feel that it is,
instead, the right wing that dominates the BBC, but I would agree that that is
not very realistic of them and I think they are even less realistic than Sean
is, in that respect. I think the BBC is more statist than market biased, as it
is state owned [though it began as a private company], but they do try to be
enemy is the state. Some socialists imagine that they, too, are against the
state. Orwell was one. I used to be another.
liberal idea is the top idea today but few see they need to get rid of
illiberal ideas to be coherent on it, at least not outside the LA. So the
majority of people today do not see the state, especially democracy, as
illiberal. But the LA does.
itself [culture qua culture] never
matters much, as it is too vague and nebulous anyway, but the things that do
matter will often be cultural; like the nation, love, justice to cite but three
items out of many that are important for people.
chap said that the state might decide all our entertainment. But what
entertainment thrives depends on what sells, not on the rulers. Politicians
often pretend they like that, but whether they do, or not, hardly matters much
to the masses. When Gordon Brown pretended to like Cold Play he haply alienated
more people than he successfully pandered to. In any case, the ruling class
cannot determine successful entertainment.
the LA opposes is cultural but it is also illiberal; it is the state. Liberty
uses private ownership as a means but no one who thinks clearly defines liberty
as mere private ownership. I do not need to own things to be free. To think so is to be confused.
course the shorter word, liberal is more apt than libertarian, as many on the
blog rightly said, and one chap said those who are against liberty should be
called puritans, but many puritans can be liberal. So statist is clearly the
proper name for those who want to restrict liberty, not puritan.
“I’ll begin the comments by thanking David for an
accurate and fair summary of what I said last week. Beyond that, I’ll only
repeat myself that we do seem to have been barking up the wrong tree – forty
years devoid of measurable success.
The Great Schism of 1982 may not have helped. On
the other hand, two fairly vibrant Libertarian Alliances emerged from that. The
truth is that we had no impact on British politics when we were a unified
movement, and none when we were spitting venom at each other, and none when we
came to our senses and became friends again.
Look at it this way. Christ was crucified in 33AD.
Within thirty years, there were enough Christians to be worth blaming for the
Great Fire of Rome. In 1983, Peter Tatchell lost a safe Labour seat because he
was outed as a poofter. Thirty years later, we had gay marriage. In the early
1960s, South African apartheid seemed unshakeable. Thirty years later, it had
fallen apart. In 1985, we were talking to each other and hardly anyone else.
Today, we are talking to each other and hardly anyone else.
Oh – thirty years ago, some of us were predicting a
police state. Today, we live in one.
You don’t get a paradigm shift in five years. But
we’ve been in this game longer than the average life expectancy of 1900. We
ought by now to have some indication of success. We are so marginal, I don’t
believe we are being watched even passively by the security services.”
Thank you for your reply and criticism, Sean, and for
making my reply into an independent blog article.
I think we are barking up the right tree but we need to
be way more active. However, even if we were as active as I wish we were and
there had been no upset in 1982, so there had been a more robust LA all along,
as well as a better one today, things would haply look much as they do today. It
is not so easy to see the results of long run liberal propaganda in the short
run but it is clear how silly the1940s The
Times columns of E.H. Carr look today.
I think Hayek was the main factor there but it is not at all easy to exactly
I do not think that two active LAs emerged from the 1982
upset but rather that an active base in London was cut off from the national LA
network. Things never were quite the same again. Both groups were weakened compared to the
It never was the aim of the LA to directly affect British
politics. We were out to capture the extraverts, or propagandists, and to bias
them against politics and more action
by the state.
Christianity has a nominal success but a “Christian” is
as ignorant of the creed as an Irishman of actual Irish history or a Marxist of
the ideas of Karl Marx. But the main fact here is that versions of the creed
were going a lot longer than only a few years between when Paul converted and
the persecution of the creed by the Romans and Paul converted to a network that not even his energy
created in the short time that you think. There never was a pristine Jesus
Christ, of course, the word never was made flesh, but we pitch his death just
before Paul converted to the creed, but I think the network was being built up
a long time prior to then. G.A. Wells
once said he thought it was around about three hundred years prior to Paul.
Do you feel that if Peter Tatchell had a heart attack on
failing to win that safe Labour seat then daft David Cameron would be any the
less keen on gay marriage, such that we would not have it today? You seem to be
the complete Romantic, Sean!
Ever since 1962, Christianity has seemed utterly perverse
to me. It is phenomenal that it ever
caught on, even with brilliant and hard-working propagandists like St Paul
spreading it. But so is a Conservative
Prime Minister pressing for a gay
marriage law that must alienate most of
his natural supporters, and the fact that a Conservative party ever wants to modernise is also phenomenal.
The majority are always going to be conservative. Even New Labour upset many
people by modernising. Those examples
certainly show the power of ideas, or of fashion, or of both. But the long
march of what we now call Political
Correctness [PC] was going long prior
to 1900. It is, basically, the very perverse ideal of Equality.
South Africa did not
look solid in 1960 to many, certainly not to me, but it had the USA on its side
at that point for there was, back then, about as much apartheid in the cities
of USA as there was in South Africa.
PC need not be statist, of course. Many liberals, maybe
most liberals, have been exceedingly fond of the crass idea of equality. It has
never been the very top idea. Liberalism is! It was in 1800. Maybe it was very
much before then too. As I said above, in the now blog article, few people want
to vie or mesh their ideas together for coherence. They simply do not see democracy, or even the state, as
illiberal. But the LA is right that it clearly is such. But it is not obvious
today. It will be in the future. This is because people are not often
interested in those things, just as they are not often interested in art. If
the public do not look, then they will not see even the clearest things.
That you were about the only one who looked up at the top
of the buildings on your visits to the lands of the late USSR should have told
you about the little effect on others was of the excellent art that you enjoyed,
Statist PC is not only illiberal but totalitarian thus
the emerging police state you cite, Sean. But the ideal of PC, which is
equality, the market, has served way better than the state ever can, and the
free market would serve even faster and better but it would be free of totalitarian
Adam Smith saw
that fact back in 1776. He felt that the workings of supply and demand tended
towards price equality and he was quite right.
Now the economists have developed the theory of the price
system, it is way easier today to see that he was right. There has been a long
run societal movement towards equality beginning long before 1776 and it
continues to happen to this day, off-set only by short run new inequalities introduced
by innovation, invention, amongst other things, like new fashion, that tends to
make the whole process a levelling up one. The luxuries of one generation that
had to be in short supply to begin with have often become the everyday goods of
the next, and this the statists call “trickle down” just as they call
competition “cut throat” but both are
social boons. Nothing needs to fall from a table and no throats need to be cut.
That is merely the hyperbole of statist propaganda.
Indeed, profit is the hallmark of social service just as
taxation is the sign of abuse towards others. The market is largely colour
blind, indifferent to homosexuality, but it does not privilege groups by
coercive law, as statist PC does, but then such privilege flouts the PC ideal
of equality, as politics cannot be even or just, to one and all.
Politics has to oppose some group as the enemy, a
Romantic ideal that is anti-liberal to its core but it is anti-equality too. So
PC ought to go free. Liberalism has an
institution as an enemy rather than any class of people, including the
ignorant ruling class. De jure
statist equality law is always de facto
When Enoch Powell said in 1968 that a constituent told
him that in ten years’ time the black man would have the whip hand over the white
men he might have replied that they already had the metaphorical whip hand since
1963, as the whites were under-privileged in relation to the blacks privilege owing
to the racial discrimination laws of that year.
Sean, the plain fact is that we have only just begun to
talk to each other theoretically. I
do hope we continue a little before we decide break off. I have no idea what
your ideas of class amount to. But I am an ex-smoker so not the best chap to
champion the liberal right to smoke, and similarly, as an ex-Marxist, I tend to
think class is sheer bosh rather as I tend to think that Christianity is, as an
But I ought to confess that I do not mind being marginal,
or unnoticed, by my enemy the state. As people, I wish state employees, at any
level, no harm at all. The Enlightenment outlook, which I champion against the
Romantic reaction that reacted against it, has no enemies. That politics intrinsically
gratuitously uses proactive coercion against at least some people is the major
fault of the state and it is why politics can never be fair.
PoliticsPosted by David McDonagh Sun, January 04, 2015 10:56:23
Why do people think politics
are a sign of concern but the market is not? Most people seem to have no idea
of what politics is. Many people, especially many students, feel all we do is
political but this is a de facto, if
unwitting, totalitarian outlook.
So when the state
spreads into fresh aspects of life, like trying to stop people smoking, or to
slim down, the de facto totalitarians
feel those zones were/are political already, as all that we do is somehow
political. So they feel the state need not be limited.
Politics is state
action in the main, though the state has a few rivals, like the coercive bodies
that we call Trade Unions. Politics is not just free decisions that affect
others but rather it is forceful or coercive action against others. Coercion is
the realistic threat of force or open violence; not mere speech about imaginary
force. The state has it. Some Trade Unions have it. Firms usually lack it
entirely. But a few firms in the past, maybe, had the use of coercion and thus they
A free market can
only emerge once the state ceases to exist. Many hold we cannot have a
free market. A lot of the LA members are such, as were most classical liberals;
but no anarchist agrees to that. Most liberals thought the state was a good
thing but they held that it is best to keep it to doing only a few things, like
keeping law and order.
The market gives the people way more control than politics ever could but
not over but rather in society. It is not central control that most might first
think of but rather it is polycentric control over our own affairs. David
Ricardo erred badly in comparing the use of money to votes, an inept
comparison that is still used in economics books today. If money was like votes
we would all be dead. Churchill was haply right to say that democracy was the
best form politics but it is still crass politics thus it is still illiberal
coercive action against other people. Thus politics is anti-social, not caring for
others, as fools feel to be the case. It is the jackboot, even when on the feet
of basically well-meaning people.
Many free decisions do
affect other people but they have no threat of force or violence, so they are
not political. Politics is about using force against other people. Politics is gratuitous
hostility towards others. It is thus very unfriendly.
Many might say that
free actions can be worse than violence might be in their impact. One foreman,
at a firm I worked for in the 1960s, used to often repeat that he would sooner
hit a man than sack him, and it was said that he had acted on this idea, often,
in the past, before I arrived, but I never saw anything like that from him;
though he was over six foot three inches tall and clearly physically fit enough to
repeat it again. In fact, he was a friendly chap but he did repeat his maxim
often. I used to reply that the sack might be better for them, but it is easy
to imagine some men who might agree with him.
This could be liberal
if he put the choice to the victim beforehand so that he could choose, but if
he assumed it, without consent, then it would be illiberal; but sacking a man
is no more illiberal than a man deciding to leave the firm. But if he is the
best worker in a small firm then it could cause the firm to decline. I recently
watched the 1950s film Hobson’s Choice (1954) that
featured that in its story line.
Most of society
[i.e. human interaction; this post is part of my society, for example] is
effectively free of coercion, thus it is apolitical. It even was such in the
late USSR; as Michael Polanyi realised, despite the mythology surrounding that
There never was a
mixed economy or a state centrally planned driven economy either. It is quite true
to say there never was a free market too, but some, not all, in the LA think
the latter will be achieved some time in the future.
Monopoly is a reason
for expecting dysfunctional activity and the state is the sole cause of actual
monopoly, and near-monopoly too. Liberty is vital for human welfare.
Where we go, how we
make a living and the like, is best left to the individuals concerned. The
state should keep out of it. That is the basic pristine and anarcho-liberal creed.
But even well before we get rid of the state, money needs to be privatised, so
the 2008 financial mess can be dodged that fools on the mass media tend to
think was caused by free market values. One man more than any other who was for
loose money was Keynes and a great liberal propagandist [as even Keynes was
once] who aided the process , especially around 1970, was Milton Friedman.
Those who the mass media speak of as free marketers are often in favour
of state regulation. The USA is in a mess today owing to the national monopoly
of money. That alone would rule out a completely free market.
PoliticsPosted by Nico Metten Mon, July 14, 2014 17:35:04
Libertarianism is all about maximising interpersonal Liberty. In
order to achieve this goal, Libertarians have identified the state as
the main obstacle to a free society. Many Libertarians are anarchists
for that reason. Some are minimal statists, who support a limited
mandate for a monopolists power to secure the rule of law. But even
the latter kind of Libertarians does realise that the state is a
great danger to liberty. They usually argue that practically states
cannot be completely abolished. If they were, a new state would
emerge automatically. But this new state would then be at risk of
being much more anti liberty then the previous one. Therefore,
Libertarians should work towards making the existing state more
minimal, rather then advocating to abolish them all together.
This is certainly a perfectly acceptable position to take within
Libertarianism. I personally happen to be an anarchist and personally
do not subscribe to the idea of minimising the state. I think this is
a dangerous strategy with very little prospects of success.
Nevertheless, I do see that minimal statists are libertarians, as
their goal still is to maximise liberty. We just happen to disagree
on the strategy.
In any case, this is of cause a very theoretical view of
Libertarianism. Currently, Libertarianism is picking up steam. It is
more and more developing into a real political movement. As this
happens, more and more people are coming to the party that are not
too concerned with details of what it means to be a libertarian.
There are now people calling themselves libertarians, who try to
introduce all kinds of positive liberty concepts into the Ideology.
This ranges from people arguing in favour of certain welfare
programs, to people arguing in favour of closed state borders. In
principal this is a very good sign. It means that Libertarianism has
become so strong that a lot of people, who are not really
Libertarians in the purest sense, nevertheless feel that
Libertarianism is the place to be. If Libertarianism wants to be
successful, it will need to tolerate a number of these people despite
the fact that they are not Libertarians in the most strict sense.
However, it is also clear that this tolerance needs to have some
limits. Otherwise Libertarianism will become meaningless and will
fail. The success of a political movements very much depends on how
successfully this line between Libertarians and non-Libertarians can
be drawn. That is why one needs to be a bit wary about people coming
to this movement with all kinds of positive liberty concepts. If I
was the Establishment, trying to get in control of a rising
libertarian movement, I would almost certainly try to make the word
meaningless, by defining libertarianism in my own way. This happened
to the word liberalism, which today in the english speaking world
describes someone who does believes the state needs to control
capitalism. The classical liberals, which were of cause libertarians
in the modern sense, made the mistake to integrate certain welfare
ideas, like state education, into their agenda.
Luckily, most people who don't like liberty, so far don't want to
call themselves Libertarians. But there are exceptions. One group of
people that I am particularly wary about are 'Libertarians' who are
also strong zionists. Zionism can mean all kinds of things, but here
I am referring to supporters of a jewish state in the middle east. It
seems very odd to me that Libertarians should support such a state.
There are two groups of arguments, why people may want liberty.
There are moral reasons on the one hand and utilitarian reasons on
the other. No matter which one you prefer, the Israeli project looks
rather bad from both angles. Why was there a zionist movement? There
were two main goals of zionism. At the end of the 19th and
the beginning of the 20th century, Jews were facing two
problems. In eastern Europe, where the majority of european jews were
living, and of course in Germany as well, Jews were facing an
increasingly hostile population. That lead some of them to conclude
that they will never we accepted. The other problem was, that there
were places in the world in which they were to well accepted. That
meant that jews increasingly stopped being jewish and simply adapted
to the local culture. The solution for the zionists seemed to be
clear. Jews needed their own homeland, a place in which they were the
domineering culture and in which they could be safe. So far so good.
From here on, the story could still end well from a Libertarian point
of view. The problem with zionism is that they decided to create a
jewish state on a territory largely owned by Palestinian Arabs.
First let us look to the decision to create a state. One of the
problems of statism is that it surprising consistently tents to
achieve the opposite of what it wants. If the state fights poverty,
you will get more poverty. If it fights gun violence, you will get
more gun violence. It it fights terrorism you will get more terrorism
etc. This should be a basic inside to every Libertarian. So jews
decided to use a state to make them more save and preserve their
culture. What would you expect to happen? Exactly, less security and
a destruction of the culture. And that is exactly what we are seeing.
Does anyone believe that jews are now more save or jewish culture
more prosperous since the state of Israel came into existence? So in
principal, the strategy of using a state to achieve any goal should
be highly suspicious to libertarians.
Unless we are talking about a minimal state, states are of course
highly problematic if you want to maximise liberty anyway. States
turn always out to be rent seeking organisations. They always produce
a class of people that is able to exploit the rest of society. Israel
was never intended and therefore never was anything close to a night
watchman state. It was planned to be a racist jewish state. One of
the earliest supporters of Israel was the Soviet Union. Although it
likes to count itself as a western country, Israel till this day has
a higher level of bureaucracy and regulations than other western
countries. And that although pretty much all western countries at
this point are closer to socialism than capitalism. It is a country
with a long military draft, state censorship of the media and even
legalised torture. Why, in principal would any Libertarian become
exited about such a state?
And then of course there is the big problem, the problem that any
supporter of Israel would rather not talk about. How come, jews are
now in a majority in a territory that when zionism started only had a
very small jewish population? The initial jewish population there got
along with the local Arabs without any major problems. And yet
supporters of Israel will tell you that all the opposition to Israel
comes from a vicious irrational anti-semitism. At first zionist,
indeed started to settle peacefully in the region. And if that was
all they were planning to do, there could be no objections from
Libertarians. Libertarians of course ought to support the movement of
people, free from government intervention. The problem was that they
had already decided and announced that they were planning a jewish
state in the region. They had won over the British, who occupied the
territory at the time as their ally in it. The British paid lip
service to the rights of the Arabs in the region. But the Arab
population, totally correctly started to sense that there was a
conspiracy being planned to make them second class citizens in their
own home. There were a number of Palestinian rebellions against the
British in the 1920th and 30th. Being good
imperialists, the British every time send over commissions to assess
why the Palestinians were rebelling. Every time they concluded that
it was obvious that they were rebelling against the prospect of a
state in the region that would make them second class citizens. When
the state of Israel was then announced, war broke out immediately. A
lot of Palestinians got out of the territory of the newly announced
state. It is still a bit of a dispute among historians, why they got
out. Were they forced out or were they fleeing from a war zone? It
was probably a mixture of both. But whatever it was, the fact remains
that after the war they were not allowed back onto their rightfully
owned property. Israel had to get them out in order to create a
jewish majority state. None of this is in any form compatible with
Libertarian principles. Zionism is an inherent collectivist and
statist ideology. Individual liberty does not play any role in it.
And yet, in these days when the conflicts gets escalated again by
Politicians, I see a lot of same proclaimed libertarians, waving
enthusiastically Israeli flags to support the government fighting
evil Palestinian terrorists. Not that there aren't any terrorists
among Palestinians. But what is going on now has very little to do
with fighting terrorism. The Israeli government lied the people into
war operations. These war operations are pretty much the equivalent
of shooting fish in a barrel. The Israeli government with its highly
sophisticated military weaponry is bombing the homes of civilians in
Gaza. The people there are largely unarmed and literally locked up,
they cannot get out. Most of the casualties are women and children so
But all of that does not seem to bother zionist Libertarians,
because you see, what is happening in gaza is self defence. And self
defence is of course perfectly compatible with libertarianism. The
Israeli, in their love for humanity are even calling a few minutes
before they hit a house. Isn't that nice. No it isn't! Because they
certainly do not check whether the people really got out. They
sometimes hit the wrong target. And anyway, since when are such acts
legal, without even a trial? Calling that self defence is like
justifying a rape with the argument that it is her fault, since she
was wearing a short skirt. But try to mention to a zionist Libertarian that the Israeli government might not always have the
best intensions, yes it may even sometimes outright lie to the
public, as it did to justify these airstrikes. You will be
immediately accused of being anti-semitic, a crazy conspiracy nutter
or both. According to zionist Libertarians, the state is bad, unless
it is fighting terrorists or is called Israel.
No sorry, this is not a form a Libertarianism that I can accept.
It basically rejects everything that libertarianism is about. The
reason why I am finding this particularly annoying is, because our
governments are all good allies of Israel. This state seems on a
suicide mission with its crazy policies. And because our governments
are supporting it, it is dragging us down with it. Every new enemy
Israel makes will also be an enemy of the rest of the west. Zionist
libertarians are supporting all these crazy policies of our
governments, because it is perceived to help Israel. They are
damaging the goals of Libertarianism and should therefore not be
allowed to get away with it.
PoliticsPosted by Jan Lester Wed, April 09, 2014 20:03:15
The two main meanings for this term are
1) using for gain (i.e., without intending any *moral evaluation
of the process), and 2) unfairly using for gain (possibly by “taking advantage
of someone’s weakness”). The main issue here is whether using *persons
within the framework of the *free market, is ever exploitation in the unfair sense;
and, if so, whether this is *rights-violating unfairness.
There is no ‘surplus value’
that the employer or ‘capitalist’ ‘extracts’ from the employee or ‘worker’, as *Marxist
theory has it. *Marginalist theory explains that the employee tends to
be paid his marginal product: exactly what he contributes to the business. Employers
and employees use each other to their mutual benefit. In particular, the
employer tends to offer the least wage he can to attract the necessary employees,
and the employees tend to take the greatest wages they can find. Typically, the
employers have a choice of employees and vice versa. Even where the choice of
either is severely restricted, by no unlibertarian means, it is hard to see how
it can be unfair (let alone rights-violating) for an employer to offer a ‘low’ wage
or for an employee to require a ‘high’ one. Both sides freely participate; both sides gain; there is no moral
obligation to pay more, or work for less, than we can; and flouting the market
rate of pay would disrupt *economic efficiency.
Mutual and voluntary ‘exploitation’
among persons is cooperation, not *oppression. The alternatives are 1) *aggressively
to impose a *privilege for one of the parties, or 2) aggressively
to prohibit such cooperation. The *state, by contrast, necessitates *proactively
imposed exploitation of its *subjects and this is both immoral and *criminal.
See also *competition and cooperation; *factors of production; *sweatshops; *unions.
A Dictionary of Libertarianism
PoliticsPosted by Jan Lester Wed, April 09, 2014 19:40:41
healthcare Healthcare is a very broad category that
begins with self-preservation, including safety, diet, and—to a far lesser extent—exercise.
If ill health occurs, then remedies can sometimes be found at a local health
food shop or a pharmacy. More serious conditions might require the assistance
of health specialists of one kind or another. The primary issue here, is
whether the various natural or pharmaceutical *drugs and
health specialists ought to be regulated and subsidized by the *state. The
*libertarian position is that the *competitive
*efficiency of the *market and *charity
is the more efficient option.
particular, in the UK, this should replace the inefficient *state
monolith that is the National Health Service (NHS): the UK’s *tax-funded
state healthcare provider (with around 1.6 million employees in 2011). It is a
popular myth that the NHS was ever the ‘envy of the world’—or why did every
other state not try to copy it? The World Health Organization’s evaluation of
healthcare systems in 2000 placed France first and the UK eighteenth. It is another
popular myth that in the USA, although very far from *depoliticized
in its healthcare, the sick and injured are turned away to die if they have no
insurance; in fact, US hospitals never turn away emergency cases (albeit that *legislation
healthcare in the UK (as with the US) was growing in all its forms before state
intervention. There were mutual aid societies, various kinds of insurance, and
a significant charitable sector. There is no reason to think that the
politicization of healthcare has improved it or extended healthcare to those
who would otherwise have gone without. Quite the reverse. Apart from the
notoriously wasteful *bureaucracy of the NHS, part of the problem is the
‘free’ *universal provision. Even compulsory insurance, where
possible, might be an improvement on tax-funding. There are also the problems
of damaging *professionalization and excessive *qualifications.
In partial acknowledgement of these problems in recent years, there have been
some token gestures in the direction of depoliticization. Complete
depoliticization has not yet been accepted by a majority of the *intellectuals,
which ultimately determines the policy direction of the UK’s elected oligarchy
A Dictionary of Libertarianism
PoliticsPosted by Jan Lester Wed, April 09, 2014 19:36:25
is not a theory of welfare in the sense of quality of life. It is, however,
compatible in practice with preference *utilitarianism, which definitely is a theory of
welfare. However, this is an unusual theory of welfare in that what we prefer
need not relate to how we feel when it is achieved or even to ourselves at all.
But if people regard themselves as being better off to the extent that they get
what they spontaneously want (i.e., without *proactive imposition),
then this seems to be the conception of welfare that they would choose for
themselves (or choose above ‘welfare’, for those essentialists who deny that
this can be a conception of welfare). And *liberty and the *free
market give us more of what we individually want. *Politics involves
politicians attempting to give us more of what they think we ought to want, and
they often even fail at that. See *consequentialism;
A Dictionary of Libertarianism